Do you think that there's also component of "everything everywhere is a space for all ages" phenomenon? Not in a "everything is being sanitized for kids" way but in a "adult and teens are now frequently exposed to the social behaviors of each other" kind of way. We know that kids/teens are inherently immature and now due to the internet being one of the few open social spaces they have these bouts of immaturity are on display for everyone to see. Not only that but I do think when you're in spaces where there are adults around there is this urge to seem "more mature" (sephora kids, booktokkers, fandom spaces etc) without really knowing what "being mature" means. Thus, this sort of "moral arbiter" archetype comes into play.
I could be way off base but the "puriteens are ruining everything" takes make me bristle slightly because it implies there are no adults in the room. I think teens have been like this forever, but instead of being able to hash things out in the hallways of school or in a gc with their friends it has now become spetical. Not only that but now there is an expectation to post.
Great write up. I'm going to be thinking about this all day.
This is an excellent observation and one I think about frequently when interacting on reddit. It is a bit weird we have such open channels of communication with huge volumes of people from entirely different generations.
Think it also coincides with the prevalence of anime in today's society.
I know it sounds like a stretch but hear my plea for a moment.
The terms that are considered "gen alpha" or very late gen z currently are almost all related to sex or a sexual attraction "gyat", "rizz" , "hawk tuah" etc.
These kids were raised in an era were shows they've been watching (whether anime or modern cartoons or marvel films etc.) have adult audiences, the studios know that and specifically target for the adults. The amount of fictional sex a preteen has been shown nowadays I would assume is the highest it has ever been.
Reading fanfics, watching ecchi shows, their "fandoms" and happenings in those fandoms amplify that. You follow someone that makes content for something you like, suddenly you open the app and this character you might have slight attraction to is shown in your face half naked from a fanartist. I imagine this has a much more shocking and personal effect than what was happening back in the day where we were watching generic porn behind people's backs.
These are now characters I recognize/know/love etc. banging or being half naked on my screen for my personal viewing and you tell me there's a whole industry of specialized free porn and people that like that same show drawing that porn?
This will either heavily radicalize you in one or two directions especially when young in my opinion.
A ton of people echo chambering your opinion as a teen (a lot of them adults) justifies in you believing your overreaction is correct and normal.
Couple that with usually the group of people being in positions of power in these fandoms(because they win arguments about the thing they like, thus social media interactions) being the more solitary types in the real world that know ***everything*** about said thing they like, they usually skew more in the emotional vulnerable category for 1 or other reason
You get rewarded for dunking on people, making fun of them, even just being perpetually obtuse and snarky just to get the quote off. The algorithm strips the people agreeing with you as numbers and your "opposition" as a bot you mocked.
I keep thinking about the woman who trashed the Greek flag thinking it was the Israeli flag. Either she knew so little about the conflict she instinctively just followed what was popular in social media(this time she was lucky it was the correct opinion) in supporting Palestine or she knew the difference between the flags and wanted to get famous off of confusion. She lives her life as a ship just following what gets clicks. But that wasn't even the most jarring thing. The swarm of people saying ironically "her heart's in the right place" and posting Greek flags getting burned to show support for Palestine ignoring the struggles Greece went through to get it's freedom.
It seems like a perpetual cycle that feeds itself into everyone ending up an incel that hates everyone living life and not being miserable online
This also makes me think about how capitalism has encouraged people to commodify their personal experiences to gain social capital on social media. Like the algorithms reward people for sharing their messy storytimes and it just further encourages other people to do the same.
Yes to all of this! As someone who has avoided social media at all costs for the very reasons you have described here in your vital and nuanced essay, I’m also concerned about the fraying of our social contracts, the lack of reciprocal bonds that used to unite a community, the deterioration of our human capacity for empathy. I appreciate how you’ve asked questions on this subject without the usual conservative bent (ie the trad con ‘woke kids these days’ cliches.) In online culture, I’ve also noticed a bizarre lack of gray areas, a disappearance of nuance or ethical ambiguity, an alarming increase in an ‘all or nothing’ mentality seems highly dangerous to me. Agree that the overuse of therapy speak has diluted the real definition of language to the point where these previously key mental health words lack any meaning or significance. My worry here is the dehumanizing effect of treating people like cartoon avatars and the disintegrating of community care that tends to happen online when the masses publicly bully or villainize just regular human flaws. People aren’t perfect: they mess up and make mistakes. I believe everyone is deserving of forgiveness and redemption. People do NOT respond well to public shaming or punishment. I sure hope that a solution comes in the near future. Idk what, but I think something needs to change in order for online society to relearn basic manners, empathy, and social interconnection. Thank you for sharing your invaluable, thoughtful insights.
At no point did I find myself disagreeing with the arguments you pose. I’m an Iranian and almost every point you made is also relatable in Tehran. Thank you for writing such a detailed, comprehensive piece. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
Even the seemingly "feel good" stories can lead to unwanted doxxing which makes it all feel extra fucked. Thinking back to Plane Bae yeeeears ago when two people were chatting nicely on a flight and someone behind them livetweeted it as if they were falling in love in real time. The guy went on morning shows and changed his social bios to reference it, and meanwhile the girl was harassed, doxxed, and had to get a lawyer to make a statement to BI about it all. Just truly wild
I agree with pretty much all of your points, and find your writing poignant and informative. As an older millennial (37), I've also noticed some of the changes you've mentioned. However, I think it's worth making the point that while not all conflict in relationships is abuse, emotionally abusive relationships can often start simply as ones with above average amounts of conflict.
I was in an emotionally/verbally abusive engagement and at first I thought it was just more conflict than I was used to dealing with. In retrospect there were some classic elements of emotional abuse (isolating, forbidding talking about aspects of the relationship with friends, and so on). I by no means think I was perfect in that relationship. We were both alcoholics and I've done a lot of work towards being a better person since then, but will never be perfect because that's just not feasible though I am sober now. I was never argumentative before this relationship though, and haven't been since. It was the first one I had been in with heavy conflict. It took me far too long to recognize the insults and emotional abuse for what they were. part of this might have been because my birth gender was male and I hadn't began questioning that. In fact avoiding asking those questions probably contributed somewhat to the substance abuse.
I know I've over shared, like way more than I needed to in order to make this point, but I just think it's worth pointing out that while conflict on its own isn't abuse, it can certainly accompany it, and it's worth it for people to educate themselves about where that line should be drawn. Of course I recommend seeking that education through texts or professional help instead of tik tok or social media though.
Has anyone else watched the new documentary series on Hulu called, "Social Studies"? It's about a set of teenagers at a high school in LA and the roles that social media plays in their lives. It's hard to watch at times, but pretty interesting.
I love a lot of what you touch on here but I suspect pushback on Rocky Horror by trans women specifically is less an issue of the moral purity test and more a real world response to overwhelmingly transmisogynist¹ portions of the commentor's local LGBT scene. I do and have seen a great deal of self-identified TERFS et al nevertheless excitedly dress up and attend the yearly Rocky Horror screening at their local - for them the ideals of their politics and a man in drag who sexually harrasses "normal" people are not in any kind of conflict.
¹ used here with the understanding that many people do not unpack those ideas out of ignorance that they exist at all (although as with all unconcious bigotries the holders thereof do often find it easier to enshrine it as innocence instead of addressing or unpicking it; lest oppressive political systems once again "ruin" the fun in something that didn't harm your demographic)
I’m not coming at this from an American perspective, but reading this it struck me that some of the cultural touchstones that helped build a shared understanding of the basic concept of “we’re all dealing with different things behind the scenes.”
Mega cheesy, but the after school special episodes of TV shows were one - and weren’t limited to kids TV, I’ve been rewatching a lot of 2000s TV, and most multi-season shows have a trauma reveal about dead family or a car crash or something.
But now, so many of our cultural touchstones are single POV, whether that’s Fleabag or TikTok.
I’m also quite worried about how this ties into discrimination and marginalisation, because when inconvenience is treated as abuse and relationships are quid pro quo, it’s inevitable that those whose cannot fit neatly into society and do not have the capacity to meet expectations will be outcast.
Speaking about WEC made both my wife and I think about the situation with Aziz a few years back, where both of our Xennial reaction was more or less “it sounds like you had a pretty shitty date.”
All very interesting, but don’t fret too much. There are plenty of young people who are living their lives entirely through the online gestalt and have learned how to enjoy the complexities and navigate the differences of the real world. A funny thing happens when you turn off your devices (or your parents do it for you): you grow up. Many won’t - but I’m not sure their view of the world will be able to dominate anyone who has looked up from their screens and found a real place exists.
When you brought up fandom albeit briefly, I've always wanted to say something as a fan of Sonic the Hedgehog. Conflict is indeed not abuse. People fight over different opinions everyday, and so I don't see why since 2006 we're making a big deal out of it. As much as I encourage a positive mindset, there are a number of us who really do have legitimate reasons to be upset with the current management of the franchise. Demonizing everyone for not meeting an intellectual standard and telling them all to get lives is not helping matters at all.
Wonderful read. I recently stopped using Reddit for a similar trend I couldn't ignore. An almost competitive display of misery one-upmanship that often tipped over into moral superiority. It felt as if Reddit was a space you had to pretend you didn't have any friends because if you did, if you were sociable, you would ironically be shunned. It just felt weirder and weirder. coming to substack and seeing several opinions calling out this behaviour lifts my spirits.
Do you think that there's also component of "everything everywhere is a space for all ages" phenomenon? Not in a "everything is being sanitized for kids" way but in a "adult and teens are now frequently exposed to the social behaviors of each other" kind of way. We know that kids/teens are inherently immature and now due to the internet being one of the few open social spaces they have these bouts of immaturity are on display for everyone to see. Not only that but I do think when you're in spaces where there are adults around there is this urge to seem "more mature" (sephora kids, booktokkers, fandom spaces etc) without really knowing what "being mature" means. Thus, this sort of "moral arbiter" archetype comes into play.
I could be way off base but the "puriteens are ruining everything" takes make me bristle slightly because it implies there are no adults in the room. I think teens have been like this forever, but instead of being able to hash things out in the hallways of school or in a gc with their friends it has now become spetical. Not only that but now there is an expectation to post.
Great write up. I'm going to be thinking about this all day.
This is an excellent observation and one I think about frequently when interacting on reddit. It is a bit weird we have such open channels of communication with huge volumes of people from entirely different generations.
Think it also coincides with the prevalence of anime in today's society.
I know it sounds like a stretch but hear my plea for a moment.
The terms that are considered "gen alpha" or very late gen z currently are almost all related to sex or a sexual attraction "gyat", "rizz" , "hawk tuah" etc.
These kids were raised in an era were shows they've been watching (whether anime or modern cartoons or marvel films etc.) have adult audiences, the studios know that and specifically target for the adults. The amount of fictional sex a preteen has been shown nowadays I would assume is the highest it has ever been.
Reading fanfics, watching ecchi shows, their "fandoms" and happenings in those fandoms amplify that. You follow someone that makes content for something you like, suddenly you open the app and this character you might have slight attraction to is shown in your face half naked from a fanartist. I imagine this has a much more shocking and personal effect than what was happening back in the day where we were watching generic porn behind people's backs.
These are now characters I recognize/know/love etc. banging or being half naked on my screen for my personal viewing and you tell me there's a whole industry of specialized free porn and people that like that same show drawing that porn?
This will either heavily radicalize you in one or two directions especially when young in my opinion.
A ton of people echo chambering your opinion as a teen (a lot of them adults) justifies in you believing your overreaction is correct and normal.
Couple that with usually the group of people being in positions of power in these fandoms(because they win arguments about the thing they like, thus social media interactions) being the more solitary types in the real world that know ***everything*** about said thing they like, they usually skew more in the emotional vulnerable category for 1 or other reason
You get rewarded for dunking on people, making fun of them, even just being perpetually obtuse and snarky just to get the quote off. The algorithm strips the people agreeing with you as numbers and your "opposition" as a bot you mocked.
I keep thinking about the woman who trashed the Greek flag thinking it was the Israeli flag. Either she knew so little about the conflict she instinctively just followed what was popular in social media(this time she was lucky it was the correct opinion) in supporting Palestine or she knew the difference between the flags and wanted to get famous off of confusion. She lives her life as a ship just following what gets clicks. But that wasn't even the most jarring thing. The swarm of people saying ironically "her heart's in the right place" and posting Greek flags getting burned to show support for Palestine ignoring the struggles Greece went through to get it's freedom.
It seems like a perpetual cycle that feeds itself into everyone ending up an incel that hates everyone living life and not being miserable online
I fear we are developing a compulsive need to dehumanize others as an outlet for personal pain and it’s genuinely going to cost lives one day.
This also makes me think about how capitalism has encouraged people to commodify their personal experiences to gain social capital on social media. Like the algorithms reward people for sharing their messy storytimes and it just further encourages other people to do the same.
Yes to all of this! As someone who has avoided social media at all costs for the very reasons you have described here in your vital and nuanced essay, I’m also concerned about the fraying of our social contracts, the lack of reciprocal bonds that used to unite a community, the deterioration of our human capacity for empathy. I appreciate how you’ve asked questions on this subject without the usual conservative bent (ie the trad con ‘woke kids these days’ cliches.) In online culture, I’ve also noticed a bizarre lack of gray areas, a disappearance of nuance or ethical ambiguity, an alarming increase in an ‘all or nothing’ mentality seems highly dangerous to me. Agree that the overuse of therapy speak has diluted the real definition of language to the point where these previously key mental health words lack any meaning or significance. My worry here is the dehumanizing effect of treating people like cartoon avatars and the disintegrating of community care that tends to happen online when the masses publicly bully or villainize just regular human flaws. People aren’t perfect: they mess up and make mistakes. I believe everyone is deserving of forgiveness and redemption. People do NOT respond well to public shaming or punishment. I sure hope that a solution comes in the near future. Idk what, but I think something needs to change in order for online society to relearn basic manners, empathy, and social interconnection. Thank you for sharing your invaluable, thoughtful insights.
At no point did I find myself disagreeing with the arguments you pose. I’m an Iranian and almost every point you made is also relatable in Tehran. Thank you for writing such a detailed, comprehensive piece. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.
Even the seemingly "feel good" stories can lead to unwanted doxxing which makes it all feel extra fucked. Thinking back to Plane Bae yeeeears ago when two people were chatting nicely on a flight and someone behind them livetweeted it as if they were falling in love in real time. The guy went on morning shows and changed his social bios to reference it, and meanwhile the girl was harassed, doxxed, and had to get a lawyer to make a statement to BI about it all. Just truly wild
yes! I remember that and it was so wild.
I agree with pretty much all of your points, and find your writing poignant and informative. As an older millennial (37), I've also noticed some of the changes you've mentioned. However, I think it's worth making the point that while not all conflict in relationships is abuse, emotionally abusive relationships can often start simply as ones with above average amounts of conflict.
I was in an emotionally/verbally abusive engagement and at first I thought it was just more conflict than I was used to dealing with. In retrospect there were some classic elements of emotional abuse (isolating, forbidding talking about aspects of the relationship with friends, and so on). I by no means think I was perfect in that relationship. We were both alcoholics and I've done a lot of work towards being a better person since then, but will never be perfect because that's just not feasible though I am sober now. I was never argumentative before this relationship though, and haven't been since. It was the first one I had been in with heavy conflict. It took me far too long to recognize the insults and emotional abuse for what they were. part of this might have been because my birth gender was male and I hadn't began questioning that. In fact avoiding asking those questions probably contributed somewhat to the substance abuse.
I know I've over shared, like way more than I needed to in order to make this point, but I just think it's worth pointing out that while conflict on its own isn't abuse, it can certainly accompany it, and it's worth it for people to educate themselves about where that line should be drawn. Of course I recommend seeking that education through texts or professional help instead of tik tok or social media though.
Has anyone else watched the new documentary series on Hulu called, "Social Studies"? It's about a set of teenagers at a high school in LA and the roles that social media plays in their lives. It's hard to watch at times, but pretty interesting.
I love a lot of what you touch on here but I suspect pushback on Rocky Horror by trans women specifically is less an issue of the moral purity test and more a real world response to overwhelmingly transmisogynist¹ portions of the commentor's local LGBT scene. I do and have seen a great deal of self-identified TERFS et al nevertheless excitedly dress up and attend the yearly Rocky Horror screening at their local - for them the ideals of their politics and a man in drag who sexually harrasses "normal" people are not in any kind of conflict.
¹ used here with the understanding that many people do not unpack those ideas out of ignorance that they exist at all (although as with all unconcious bigotries the holders thereof do often find it easier to enshrine it as innocence instead of addressing or unpicking it; lest oppressive political systems once again "ruin" the fun in something that didn't harm your demographic)
I’m not coming at this from an American perspective, but reading this it struck me that some of the cultural touchstones that helped build a shared understanding of the basic concept of “we’re all dealing with different things behind the scenes.”
Mega cheesy, but the after school special episodes of TV shows were one - and weren’t limited to kids TV, I’ve been rewatching a lot of 2000s TV, and most multi-season shows have a trauma reveal about dead family or a car crash or something.
But now, so many of our cultural touchstones are single POV, whether that’s Fleabag or TikTok.
I’m also quite worried about how this ties into discrimination and marginalisation, because when inconvenience is treated as abuse and relationships are quid pro quo, it’s inevitable that those whose cannot fit neatly into society and do not have the capacity to meet expectations will be outcast.
Great read, lots to think about. I'm scared for teens today, what an awful place online must be for them to navigate
Speaking about WEC made both my wife and I think about the situation with Aziz a few years back, where both of our Xennial reaction was more or less “it sounds like you had a pretty shitty date.”
All very interesting, but don’t fret too much. There are plenty of young people who are living their lives entirely through the online gestalt and have learned how to enjoy the complexities and navigate the differences of the real world. A funny thing happens when you turn off your devices (or your parents do it for you): you grow up. Many won’t - but I’m not sure their view of the world will be able to dominate anyone who has looked up from their screens and found a real place exists.
"the nuances with which marginalized communities wield their limited options for justice in American hegemony"
Had to stop reading at that nonsense.
When you brought up fandom albeit briefly, I've always wanted to say something as a fan of Sonic the Hedgehog. Conflict is indeed not abuse. People fight over different opinions everyday, and so I don't see why since 2006 we're making a big deal out of it. As much as I encourage a positive mindset, there are a number of us who really do have legitimate reasons to be upset with the current management of the franchise. Demonizing everyone for not meeting an intellectual standard and telling them all to get lives is not helping matters at all.
Wonderful read. I recently stopped using Reddit for a similar trend I couldn't ignore. An almost competitive display of misery one-upmanship that often tipped over into moral superiority. It felt as if Reddit was a space you had to pretend you didn't have any friends because if you did, if you were sociable, you would ironically be shunned. It just felt weirder and weirder. coming to substack and seeing several opinions calling out this behaviour lifts my spirits.