I was really tempted to start my comment with, “in this thesis, I will explore…” and go full university dissertation in your comments with so many ideas, but instead I’ll just say that I love reading (and watching) your thoughts on all topics, but especially the “loneliness epidemic” (or what I refer to as The Homebodying of America). I always find your discussions so thought provoking and engaging, and they force me to think critically beyond my own lived experiences and habits.
I really think it's worth listening in particular to South Korean queer women who've been warning westerners that 4B and similar movements are hotbeds of transphobia and gender essentialism. We've been hearing the same from trans men in the US, who've been watching as the "men are evil" talk transitions into "women can do no wrong" and then "women need to be protected from all men and there's no intersectionality there". The whole thing freaks me out almost as much as "reactionary feminism" does.
I've seen the boyfriendland epidemic hit my real life. With girls around me taking the sides of their male friends and boyfriends in any argument without any critical thinking. It makes me worry that the agency of women is being replaced by a currency fixed to male attention.
Unfortunately, the world, for the most part, has a long common history of women being dependant on men for their livelihood & even being considered a legal person stretching back (at least) to the Greeks.
Also, even today, the vast majority of those in power with wealth & leadership & political roles are men. Men control most of tech, finance, & business & especially entertainment, which helps create our cultural norms. Is it any surprise women suffer & are often ignored or disrespected?
But this is why bfs are worshiped. Because it's easy & comes from a long history of women worshiping men.
Your TikTok about how Selena Gomez isn't particularly good at anything she is famous for really resonated with me. I've felt this for years and haven't been able to verbalise it. Thank you and thank you for saying it loudly!
I'm also terrified by the cultural dark ages we are entering. I think it's REALLY important that we stop funding these billionaires who are destroying our culture and our rights. Cancel Amazon prime, delete meta and Twitter apps. We need to refund these billionaires as much as possible.
Boyfriendland smh… I saw this one tiktok that asked, are you a girlfriend (girl who makes having a boyfriend her whole personality) or are you a girl with a boyfriend? Also brother, you tell me where you are, imma come running. Insta, YouTube, Bluesky, OF, I’ll be there. Love your brain, always challenges me. 🤎
i’m a new reader - this was a great recap & i’m so excited to read these articles i haven’t read yet! i think you write about culture in a really refreshing way :)
so glad i ended up coming across your content on tiktok and following you to substack; your analyses have truly changed a lot of my worldviews and i'll be forever grateful to That App for introducing me to so many creators like you.
I never thought about it until reading this (excellent!) piece, but boy-howdy, I don't know what it says exactly about culture that the 4B's movement AND the increasing conservative-radicalization of other women are both happening at the same time. This contradiction is so dense I think I'm getting a nosebleed. Thanks for being confused with me!
That spreadsheet!! Thanks for taking the time to create it. I've shared it with my friends and family as well. Ah with all the madness in the world at the minute, it's easy to forget that people like you exist, I'm grateful you do! :D
One thing you’re not considering for people staying home and ordering takeout is Long Covid. A lot of people who have it don’t even know they have it. They just know that they’re tired and every cold seems to hit them harder. Covid is trashing people’s bodies.
My long Covid among many symptoms caused extreme mood swings and anger because my brain is inflamed. Thankfully I started on an anti-inflammatory SSRI called Luvox that has stabilized my mood.
Go to google scholar and search each issue: “Covid and ME/CFS, cognitive damage, viral persistence, immune dysfunction, diabetes, vascular damage, kidney damage, and liver damage.” You’ll be shocked.
re: 4B. I have a Korean American friend who has been rallying HARD against 4B for months, talking about how Americans don't have the context to understand how awful it is. I'm linking her to this post so that perhaps she can come share her intel.
Ok, she doesn't have a Substack, but here's what she shared with me. LOTS to learn from here about 4B:
Re: 4B, since most korean and trans voices are getting talked over and drowned out -- basically - it sucks and is a terrible idea.
4B which is super extremist fringe in Korea is absolutely not the face or voice of feminism in Korea. It's recursive 70s political feminism rehashed into Korean misandry separatism that has basically led to hate crimes against trans and queer individuals in Korea. It's violently misandrist - and some vocal members were even picked up for raping young boys in Australia or sharing cp online. They hate on single mothers, SA and DV victims (victim blaming) and on twitter were more recently blaming cervical cancer victims for getting HPV and deserving their own medical plights. They are nutso. Plus weirdly elon musk fangirls dealing in crypto. Like these are the absolutely worst people to try and platform further.
The glossiest basic summary of what 4B's rules are fan canonized in english language media and has run wild as this powerful 'force" or "movement". It's not. Now western media feminists think it's a cool thing that needs elevation and greater renown - speaking over Korean feminists and Korean queer activists who are telling them woah...no.... pinkpill hate speech in 4b is not it....
But... it's kinda too late.
Performative inactivism by western/american women speaking over Korean pop culture headcanon of feminism has steamrolled over more rational voices on the issue. FYI: Quiet feminism is not the same as 4b. 4b is specifically extremist womad/feminist fringe message board communities. 4b members never come out to political rallies/protests/etc. because they'd be implicated as associates of ongoing criminal slander investigations (korea's got serious libel laws and kinda shitty online digital crimes prosecution history re: ai porn/ upskirt videos etc)
It's a whole ass thing.
Korea has a shit ton of misogyny issues true, incel misogynistic redpill message boards vs the mirrored 4b womad womens gender troll battles. It has not moved the needle for feminism in Korea at all. Anywhere.
And feminism and activism is a complicated issue there - but 4B is *nowhere* a vocal or prevalent reason behind population decline or anything else. I mean, 4b went after Nobel Laureate Han Kang for being a single mom. How dare she love her son - they called her a parasite host. Like bffr.
Most Korean women who are familiar with feminist activism in Korea are bemused, confused, and aghast with how western/english women have taken 4b and run with it. 4b is literally less than 1% of S. Korean women. And shrinking based on reported numbers. So yeah, that's a quick download of my thoughts on it.
I was really tempted to start my comment with, “in this thesis, I will explore…” and go full university dissertation in your comments with so many ideas, but instead I’ll just say that I love reading (and watching) your thoughts on all topics, but especially the “loneliness epidemic” (or what I refer to as The Homebodying of America). I always find your discussions so thought provoking and engaging, and they force me to think critically beyond my own lived experiences and habits.
I really think it's worth listening in particular to South Korean queer women who've been warning westerners that 4B and similar movements are hotbeds of transphobia and gender essentialism. We've been hearing the same from trans men in the US, who've been watching as the "men are evil" talk transitions into "women can do no wrong" and then "women need to be protected from all men and there's no intersectionality there". The whole thing freaks me out almost as much as "reactionary feminism" does.
I've seen the boyfriendland epidemic hit my real life. With girls around me taking the sides of their male friends and boyfriends in any argument without any critical thinking. It makes me worry that the agency of women is being replaced by a currency fixed to male attention.
Unfortunately, the world, for the most part, has a long common history of women being dependant on men for their livelihood & even being considered a legal person stretching back (at least) to the Greeks.
Also, even today, the vast majority of those in power with wealth & leadership & political roles are men. Men control most of tech, finance, & business & especially entertainment, which helps create our cultural norms. Is it any surprise women suffer & are often ignored or disrespected?
But this is why bfs are worshiped. Because it's easy & comes from a long history of women worshiping men.
Is it changing?
Yes.
Your TikTok about how Selena Gomez isn't particularly good at anything she is famous for really resonated with me. I've felt this for years and haven't been able to verbalise it. Thank you and thank you for saying it loudly!
I'm also terrified by the cultural dark ages we are entering. I think it's REALLY important that we stop funding these billionaires who are destroying our culture and our rights. Cancel Amazon prime, delete meta and Twitter apps. We need to refund these billionaires as much as possible.
Boyfriendland smh… I saw this one tiktok that asked, are you a girlfriend (girl who makes having a boyfriend her whole personality) or are you a girl with a boyfriend? Also brother, you tell me where you are, imma come running. Insta, YouTube, Bluesky, OF, I’ll be there. Love your brain, always challenges me. 🤎
thank you so much! You’re so kind <3 appreciate you being here!
i’m a new reader - this was a great recap & i’m so excited to read these articles i haven’t read yet! i think you write about culture in a really refreshing way :)
thank you!
You have been one of the best people I’ve learned about on TikTok. Very excited to see what you can do on YT!
thank you!!
This was a GREAT read, both the curation and the commentary. I look forward to reading much more from you. Thank you for writing!
so glad i ended up coming across your content on tiktok and following you to substack; your analyses have truly changed a lot of my worldviews and i'll be forever grateful to That App for introducing me to so many creators like you.
thank you!!
Totally agree about I saw the TV glow
I never thought about it until reading this (excellent!) piece, but boy-howdy, I don't know what it says exactly about culture that the 4B's movement AND the increasing conservative-radicalization of other women are both happening at the same time. This contradiction is so dense I think I'm getting a nosebleed. Thanks for being confused with me!
fantastic recap!!
That spreadsheet!! Thanks for taking the time to create it. I've shared it with my friends and family as well. Ah with all the madness in the world at the minute, it's easy to forget that people like you exist, I'm grateful you do! :D
One thing you’re not considering for people staying home and ordering takeout is Long Covid. A lot of people who have it don’t even know they have it. They just know that they’re tired and every cold seems to hit them harder. Covid is trashing people’s bodies.
My long Covid among many symptoms caused extreme mood swings and anger because my brain is inflamed. Thankfully I started on an anti-inflammatory SSRI called Luvox that has stabilized my mood.
Go to google scholar and search each issue: “Covid and ME/CFS, cognitive damage, viral persistence, immune dysfunction, diabetes, vascular damage, kidney damage, and liver damage.” You’ll be shocked.
re: 4B. I have a Korean American friend who has been rallying HARD against 4B for months, talking about how Americans don't have the context to understand how awful it is. I'm linking her to this post so that perhaps she can come share her intel.
Ok, she doesn't have a Substack, but here's what she shared with me. LOTS to learn from here about 4B:
Re: 4B, since most korean and trans voices are getting talked over and drowned out -- basically - it sucks and is a terrible idea.
4B which is super extremist fringe in Korea is absolutely not the face or voice of feminism in Korea. It's recursive 70s political feminism rehashed into Korean misandry separatism that has basically led to hate crimes against trans and queer individuals in Korea. It's violently misandrist - and some vocal members were even picked up for raping young boys in Australia or sharing cp online. They hate on single mothers, SA and DV victims (victim blaming) and on twitter were more recently blaming cervical cancer victims for getting HPV and deserving their own medical plights. They are nutso. Plus weirdly elon musk fangirls dealing in crypto. Like these are the absolutely worst people to try and platform further.
The glossiest basic summary of what 4B's rules are fan canonized in english language media and has run wild as this powerful 'force" or "movement". It's not. Now western media feminists think it's a cool thing that needs elevation and greater renown - speaking over Korean feminists and Korean queer activists who are telling them woah...no.... pinkpill hate speech in 4b is not it....
But... it's kinda too late.
Performative inactivism by western/american women speaking over Korean pop culture headcanon of feminism has steamrolled over more rational voices on the issue. FYI: Quiet feminism is not the same as 4b. 4b is specifically extremist womad/feminist fringe message board communities. 4b members never come out to political rallies/protests/etc. because they'd be implicated as associates of ongoing criminal slander investigations (korea's got serious libel laws and kinda shitty online digital crimes prosecution history re: ai porn/ upskirt videos etc)
It's a whole ass thing.
Korea has a shit ton of misogyny issues true, incel misogynistic redpill message boards vs the mirrored 4b womad womens gender troll battles. It has not moved the needle for feminism in Korea at all. Anywhere.
And feminism and activism is a complicated issue there - but 4B is *nowhere* a vocal or prevalent reason behind population decline or anything else. I mean, 4b went after Nobel Laureate Han Kang for being a single mom. How dare she love her son - they called her a parasite host. Like bffr.
Most Korean women who are familiar with feminist activism in Korea are bemused, confused, and aghast with how western/english women have taken 4b and run with it. 4b is literally less than 1% of S. Korean women. And shrinking based on reported numbers. So yeah, that's a quick download of my thoughts on it.
Thank you Ariel! This is so informative and helpful. I’ll include this in my next round up!
awesome! credit goes to Min Jung Kim (minjung@gmail.com)