This is interesting! Especially as someone who spends A LOT of time in her bed since working from home four days a week (and genuinely loves being in bed for long periods of time!!! it’s where I work, write, eat, I kid you not sometimes I even do yoga in bed lolll it’s a bit insane but I’ve always been like this). I do wonder though how much of the trend you’re talking about has to do with the pandemic. If we’re talking about people in their mid-20s NOW, they entered adulthood while clubs were shutting down, they were forced from their college campuses back home for remote learning. I partied every weekend in college, and that was a pace I could manage!! But post-pandemic, I really have an entirely different relationship to clubs. Idk, I also don’t believe that these ppl are doing nothing lolll I think like all social media commiserating, it channels the extreme version of the idea. It seems like we can’t talk about Gen-Z’s relationship to the outside world without talking about the fact that they lost access to it at a significant age in their development. I will say when I did grad school a few years ago, the Gen-Z 20-somethings on campus were SO stylish and alive with their friends and flirting on the lawn--so I think, at least partly, the internet is just internet-ting again
I completely agree with your point about social media commiserating being the extreme version of the idea. I think a lot of these posts are heightened, for relatability or comedic purposes, in pursuit of traction. Current version of self deprecating ‘I’m so awkward’ posts of the 2010s
I do think you are right that the pandemic plays a role in gen z losing momentum for socializing outside the home. I still have questions about why bed rotting or dissociation is glorified. But, I think part of it is that Gen Z was handed a lot of hard stuff in the development years, such as economic uncertainty, worsening climate change, algorithmic technology at an early age. And of course the pandemic and lockdowns.
(Also I want to gently note your use of "post-pandemic". The Covid-19 pandemic is still happening and evolving. If you are talking about *lockdown*, please make sure your language is clear and makes distinctions between this and the virus. The pandemic, Covid-19, is not the same as lockdown, and we're currently in a large surge. Lockdown ended, Covid did not. Thanks!)
My dude the idea that your generation has more ACTUAL stress because of ACTUAL world events that are fundamentally beyond your perception is nonsense. My father grew up in a literal war zone and loved partying. People grew up during the Cuban missile crisis. It’s the phones. Hell, even your perception of these stressors is driven by your 24/7 connection to the news. You would not be worrying about the climate so much if you were just outside going about your business in it.
your comment lacks empathy and dismisses the challenges Gen Z faces. their stressors are different than yours, but that gives you no right to suggest that those stressors are not real stressors, and that your generation and other generations have "actual" stressors compared to theirs. Stressors are stressors.
You also falsely assumed I'm Gen Z. Gen Z is not my generation, but I am still making an effort to try to understand the challenges they are dealing with. Because, you know, empathy.
This is why none of want to be around people! “You’ve had too much empathy”. Are you for real? Your commenting on an article for what looks like just another opportunity to i individualize yourself with distinction. You’ve made society inhospitable and we don’t want to be around your judgement and lack of basic human decency. Also, learn about neurodivergent people. You don’t get to decide other people’s experiences.
You would be able to handle it if you hadn’t been so toxically molly coddled. The people who taught you these ideas have wronged and seriously harmed you
sweetie baby I am empathetic AF and its why I cut someone with a razor when I was 12. he older teen who was hitting on my sister who was 15 and she was scared. Do you want to step off now? Sorrel,. hiya! So tell the class every single good thing empathy has done for you. you got like a few right?
"your comment lacks empathy" that's just because the comment they respond to doesn't deserve much.
> "You also falsely assumed I'm Gen Z. Gen Z is not my generation, but I am still making an effort to try to understand the challenges they are dealing with.
Understanding the challenges doesn't involve validating non-challenges.
I have to say I agree. My grandmother was raised during WWII - spent nights in air raid shelters, went to school with a box with a gas mask. She loved going out jiving. What she didn’t have was a constant connection to media, family and friends and non tangible problems. She had real problems anti deal with, she understood violence was violence and words were words. And she certainly didn’t worry about “empathy” 😂 what a first world problem to have.
"It's the phones." Nailed it. I'd say it's a lack of self control. The fact that some people, in this miserable world, are actually worrying about the climate on a daily or weekly basis, baffles me beyond greater mysteries.
This; house prices are high, but almost literally everything else is better and safer than it used to be, and I'm gonna go ahead and say these people complaining aren't in Sudan, Gaza, or Ukraine.
this!! it’s so important to remember we all lived thru a traumatic event together (and still are!) and like most era defining events it changed things!!! + the quirky introvert model has, to some degree, always been a condescending voice of superiority in online spaces. since the dawn of streaming, girlies were out there bragging ab endlessly consume content indoors while melting into their couch.
Interesting point! I also think the pandemic messed things up socially and we’re only just getting back into the swing of things so to speak. Having everything shut down during your formative years is a lot to take. We will bounce back and I also think your point about things online being extreme is entirely true. Online is an imaginary world. The sooner we all realize that the better.
I have similar thoughts to you. I did some post-turning-18 clubbing prior to the pandemic which were… interesting, honestly not that fun times, potentially because of WHERE I was clubbing. When the pandemic hit I had my own personal things happening and was kind of glad for a good reason to stay at home and try to work on projects. I haven’t clubbed since, nor even been to a house party, mostly because where I live all the “good clubs” people are nostalgic for shut down! The nightlife environment itself changed and now, from my perspective, young people seem to gravitate more to dinners/drinks at pubs or local bands at dingy venues. I am also socially awkward in real life and need to be in the right mood to go out and not feel like a weirdo, regardless of the apparent shtick of introversion in Gen Zers. I definitely agree that perhaps more of us are being open online about our lifestyle habits and that likely reflects a few socioeconomic changes, but also agree that it’s the Internet internetting!
Maybe people are afraid to commit themselves to an activity that can be taken away so easily without warning, and replaced with intense fearmongering and shaming language. The trauma has poisoned such activities for them, so they retreat to what cannot be torn from their grasp. If a small kid had a favorite toy, but one day, an adult ripped it from their hands and shouted at them for no reason, then the kid would avoid that toy in future, to the point of ignoring its very existence.
Ehh, I mean, did Gen Z see more gun violence than people in the gangster epoch? I don't think those people were afraid of going public, even if there was a possibility of being hit by a drive-by unrelated to you.
I would tag it as “all sorts of violence” to that. Several stories of grandfathers and great grandfathers, where they would casually hint at home entrances, windows and car doors being completely unlocked like nothing.
Today modern cars will lock themselves down the moment you walk away, start rolling proximity cameras (higher end ones) and be tracked by satellite.
Today some cities you get out home avoiding stepping on others’ poops and worried if there’s some crazy person pushing people to the subway tracks to their demise.
cannot express how perfectly this captured my feelings about the concept of bedrotting as a legitimate mode of life and not like…a sign of depression??? it genuinely depresses me how simply scrolling on one’s phone (as opposed to texting friends to make plans, engaging with some niche specific community like the fanfiction people are doing, developing obscure specialist knowledge about highly specific topics) is seen as a hobby
there are so many jokes-that-aren’t jokes about having no hobbies and enjoying the stagnancy and comfort of staying in versus having some encounters with the REAL WORLD…and like, that isn’t self-care babe, that’s self-harm…
right!!!!!! staying in your comfort zone 24/7 is not healthy and yeah maybe it feels good (not even good, just not scary/bad as opposed to going outside and doing stuff) but it really is not good for you . people don't even want to experience life anymore, they'd rather watch a distorted version of it on their screens
“Name three hobbies you have outside of media consumption” literally changed my life. I think about it at least once a week and feel much less online because of it
Can you explain this to me, an ancient 38 year old? Is that question difficult to answer for young people? Why? I can answer that question easily (weightlifting, community band, puzzling, books, cooking, going to art museums)
The people this article is about will just go home and watch Netflix and Instagramm. There is a non-zero group of people with no hobbies outside of media consumption.
I think it's more about the passive idea of consumption rather than it being media in general. Books and art museums require more than just sitting around (technically). If you're reading a book you're not just a receptacle for the information the same way you are watching a YouTube video or TikTok. You, if alone, engage with the text actively. It sparks thoughts and ideas and your brain follows them as part of the activity of reading.
I think with books that only applies if your reading books that challenge you in some way. Like I don’t think someone who only reads bottom of the barrel YA novels their whole life has any more of a rich life than someone who only watches sitcoms
I mean, sure. That being said, sitcoms can say things and be intellectually engaging media, as well. Like, the Good Place is a great example of a show that engages watchers while the show is going on while also imploring outside exploration into philosophical concepts. So to act as if all media is mindless, even sitcoms, even certain YA, is narrow minded. People should engage with challenging media but having broadly defined media that "isn't challenging" prevents people from seeing what can be intellectually engaging.
Also I think it's telling that you seem to have not noticed that three of your "hobbies" are media consumption (puzzling, books, art museums). That still leaves the other three, so you are in the top 1% there.
IKR. Music. Reading. Swimming. Taking walks (is that a hobby?). Making videos. C'mon... everybody has hobbies. Honestly... they have hobbies too. I can't imagine but a VERY small, undisciplined minority of people, actually lack hobbies because of their social media usage. God the online world is such a ridiculous mockery of the real thang.
It's in a way even a lower bar than it sounds like, it's 'consumption' not creation. As the author states, the people churning out creative works aren't like this.
I do think that an element of this is just who is online. I have a friend circle of 10-20 women in their thirties and forties and we go out all the time. hiking, dancing, weekends away, we do potluck dinners and picnics, throw bbqs, swimming at the river, etc. and most of those women just aren't really online. I know we're not really the generation you're describing here, just musing about how many active people i know who don't have time for social media.
After the lockdown, I have realized that I got energies for only one activity a week at most and never on Sundays. Which is a bit strict for many. Recharging at home has become a higher priority.
After a day of intense work paired with the daily busy and noisy commute along with thousands others in crowded subways and buses: what I really crave is a lonely jog run with a podcast or music playing, far away from it all.
After doing a week of that, JUST READING the amounts of activities people enjoy and imagining the actual efforts behind it (it takes some willpower and preparation for it) gets me tired 😅
But this is something that has to be sustained, after skipping one too many events, people will understandably stop inviting.
You might be the exception but mostly it doesn't work like that.
I used to come home from work shattered and then drag myself out to play 2 hours badminton, an hour in the pub and then drag myself home near midnight with too much energy to go straight to bed. It seems counterintuitive but it's true - The more time you spend doing stuff you like with people you like, the more energy you have. Watching TV is draining
This is key: we aren't batteries, and energy and ability to go out is like a muscle. As you say, lying in bed doing nothing drains energy, and no, this isn't an introvert/extrovert thing: I'm pretty introverted, but going out for a walk in the park or woods is energising and staying in is draining.
It seems like there's a pretty intuitive explanation to me: During the formative period in many Gen Zer teens/twenties, say high school and college, the COVID-19 pandemic upended their lives*. Suddenly, schools were closed and everyone was bombarded with messages about how important it was to stay home and how dangerous/irresponsible it was to be out where you could catch a disease. It was easy to conflate social contact with danger. People YOLOing it out an Appleby's were called out in 2020-2021, and in some places, much later than that.
Everyone responded by spending way more time online than they already did, many finding weird rabbit holes to go down. TikTok boomed during this time. Our brains were stuffed with constant reels arguing about masking and vaccines and transmission of illnesses. After covid stole the show there was the boomlet of panic about Mpox, which was entangled with sexual behavior. Don't get me started on the political and social strife during the last 4 years (we had an insurrection! half the country thinks the last election was stolen!!)
Should we be surprised that many of the younger generation adapted and either grew to like their hyper-introvert reality (or at least told themselves they did)? We essentially lived through a global mass trauma, and I think a lot of people have PTSD and anxiety disorders as a result. It won't get fixed overnight. I'm a married elder millennial turning 39 this week and covid impacted me a lot; I can't imagine what it was like for a 20 year old with a still developing brain, sense of self, and life plan.
*Please note that I am not a crazy anti-vaxxer or person who rants about the evils of covid social distancing measures. It was a serious disease, lots of people died. Some have continued to have long term disability. We were working with limited information, the fog of war of a pandemic means we're going to get some decisions wrong, by degree or by kind. That doesn't mean we have to ignore the lingering aftershocks.
You make some really excellent points! I didn’t think about the formation of the self during really pivotal years, and COVID really probably explains the spiking anxiety disorders among very young people.
So the question is, what do those who came of age during these years do about it? I see communities forming in baby steps, and people coming out of their comfort zones here and there, but nothing substantial yet and especially not in rural/suburban areas. I think people want to break out of this but genuinely do not know how or have the tools to do so. They need to be brought into community, but how, and where...? So much of social life for ALL ages has taken a hit.
I enjoyed the post but I’m not sure why so many people are convinced that it’s more moral to go out and interact with friends you might not really like than stay home and be happy. The videos I see show lovely cozy homes that clearly took effort to build… this isn’t a person who never does anything. I genuinely love time by myself and I suppose I’m a little proud of that because it seems so many people don’t. But none of these people are trying to prevent other people from going out! And frankly when those memes are most appealing are when… someone needs a vacation or a rest. After decades of productivity and hustle culture, the message that you’re supposed to be optimizing every breath you take, I think it’s a nice change. I really am an introvert. And of course I still need and want human connection and interaction. But between work and family getting some time to rest and enjoy myself alone with no guilt is very appealing.
I assume that this post isn't directed on introverts who do something good while staying home. It's directed on people who just scroll social media 24/7 - claiming they're resting, but, in fact, the activity itself is exhausting and requires more rest. A doomed cycle.
I feel like the person writing this essay was trying to point to a large societal shift reflected in internet culture rather than blame random people about wanting to stay home. Obviously everybody can decide what they want to do with their lifes but it says something about our society that so many people choose to stay home rather than meet friends.
I’m not sure it does. Most often this is not different people but different days or weeks - normal people both stay home sometimes and go out to meet friends sometimes. But it used to be that staying home was made fun of and associated with being a looser and I think cute little videos of someone showing their cute little home and how nice snuggling under you fav blanket with your fav snacks watching tv and being on your phone (probably texting with friends or family) is a positive shift in culture not a negative one.
I disagree. If i am home an want to relax i would much rather draw something, or read a book or listen to a podcast. My life feels more rich even when i am alone at home. I feel relaxed. I sleep better. I am not scared of being alone. Social media makes you feel as though you have to be connected 24/7 even if don't feel like it and for me personally that has led to a lot of anxiety and stress and general discomfort with my own life. But thats obviously been just my personal expirence and it might be diffrent for you
You've identified something very real here, internet culture is inherently apathetic and filled with a strong crab-in-the bucket mentality where attempting to achieve anything or move beyond it is interepreted as a hostile move, and seeing oneself as better than it. On the other hand there's the curse of generation discourse and it's twin generational insecurity that I feel you're falling prey too, it's true Gen Z is partying, taking less drugs( though those who do take drugs are far more likely to die), having fewer relationship and in general living in a more sober existence. There's nothing particularly wrong with that, and I don't think there's a need to act like there's a some sort of healthy norm for how widespread these things are. One of the glories of our era is that the internet has allowed widespread profilieration of subculture and communities to an anyone with a connection to it. The fact that other forms of entertainment have declined isn't unexpected.
My father works in preventing underage drinking. I’ve heard plenty of times from him about how great it is that young people are drinking less because of cultural norms. The problem is that if 20 year olds are partying less, so are 21 year olds.
The result of this cultural shift is that increasingly, people in my city simply don’t show up for concerts or to clubs. The local music scene is hanging on by a thread. I can count one hand the number of actual parties I’ve been to with more than one or two other couples/individuals hanging out. It makes earlier eras like the Happenings of the 60s and even the house parties of 2000s movies seem almost mythological. Unless you convince yourselves these things either never happened or were bad, actually, it’s hard not to feel resentful that this kind of thing is so hard to find now.
I think this is why many of us have receded into a nostalgic fantasy of earlier eras. I saw someone on Substack rolling their eyes at this today, but people are trying to emulate other times because it’s almost if we all pretend it’s the 70s/80s/90s then maybe we can return to what is perceived as a more authentic and less lonely time.
I was a teenager in the 2000s and the house parties were the best! It was as fun as it looks. A house party with the right people was always better than the best of clubs 😁
Being a teenager with overbearing parents in the 2000s made going to them impossible even if I would have gotten invited, and then in college the only ones I got invited to were small and lame. I’m not bitter, lol.
I think you make a good point there George. I’m Gen X and one thing I’ve noticed with my friends who have kids is that they are more overbearing than our parents were. They over protect and smoother their kids and then complain that they aren’t independent - but god forbid you point out to them that it could be the result of not allowing them to fail and learn from their mistakes in the way that we were allowed to. Most of my friends would have hated to have themselves as parents - but they genuinely believe they are cool and hip parents 😂
Education about codependence would be nice. Why doing things for others that they should be doing for themselves is bad. Obsession about others' outcomes is bad. They are human beings who should be given the dignity of choice. Only through consequences do we learn anything.
Should be mandatory, but we haven't gotten the memo yet. And as a result, i was helicoptering in for my kids and ex-wife until I finally found recovery from the illness a couple years ago. GenX also.
In the Sixties there were plenty of places to go if you didn't like bars. A more significant point is that concerts, etc. were much less expensive. I was in the service in Hawaii in the late Sixties in Hawaii, a very expensive place to live, but we could go to concerts and festivals and, to a lesser degree, "happenings" for next to nothing. Now it seems to require the cost of a new car to go to a concert.
This was so good. As an 'introvert' (classic millennial over claiming that term) I've had to do some WORK in the last four years to force myself back into the world in a meaningful way after things shifted to working from home in the pandemic. I'm still not back in the office full time, and sometimes I think the lack of momentum makes bed rotting more appealing. If I haven't had to get up and leave the house to get to work, then at 6pm after a day of stressing out at a screen, it's way harder to get ready and go out to do something else. The natural connections just aren't there either - grabbing coffee with a co-worker, going for a drink after work. My social skills did decline over that period. So I wonder if there's a bit of that in the mix too? That we haven't quite recovered from the impact of the pandemic and those who are inclined to introversion have found it more difficult to get back to the usual levels of socialising because of that lack of social momentum now. I'm sure that's even more so the case for people who were 'coming of age' at that time - those who would have been moving into the natural age where you start partying and clubbing, but instead that was curtailed.
Enjoyed your thoughts on it! Lots to think about :)
I just moved to LA and got on Bumble BFF to meet new folks and have seen so many people who proclaim they’re in need of friends, but can’t be bothered to make plans that require leaving their home or even respond to texts despite being on their phone constantly…and we wonder why we’re in the loneliness epidemic we’ve found ourselves in???
Yes, conversations require effort! Friendship requires time and energy! Community requires involvement and connection! No, that’s not as ~easy~ as bedrotting! But does that make it any less necessary for a full, vibrant life? Humans *need* community. We *need* eachother. But we have to get tf out of bed, put on some goddamn pants and text our homies back!!!!!
To take it one step further, I also wonder about the glorification of apathy. Today I saw an IG reel of a woman laying in her robe on a treadmill looking at her phone, eating chips and drinking wine. The caption read something like “so happy my doctor told me to take time for myself on a treadmill for 30 minutes every day. Best 30 minutes ever.” And of course, the rush to comment about competing laziness bubbled up like a geyser.
I wonder where the glorification of checking out and intentionally under performing became the cool thing to do.
This reminds me of conversations I've had with my friends about how cultural attitudes towards work have perhaps overcorrected into a different and yet still unfulfilling norm. Everywhere people are glorifying rest and villainizing productivity, and I think we forget humans *like* to do things, to create, to be in community, and to (frankly) work toward what they care about. It doesn't actually feel that good to not do things all the time. Obviously there is a balance there, but I don't think the solution to a culture that overworks us is to glorify an apathetic one like you described.
Not everyone can cure cancer or paint masterpieces. There's something to be said for doing bullshit jobs with dignity and humility, in order to provide a needed service or make someone else's life better. How long can we continue as a civilized society if people just quiet-quit their boring or unfulfilling work? How do the non-gifted feel about themselves if they justify not working hard at anything because they can't or won't do non-bullshit jobs -- are their lives better? Should they maybe consider the maturity inherent in "I did my best at something that wasn't my favorite" as opposed to "I am justified in rotting out because I can't spend my days doing what I consider fulfilling?"
I agree there are jobs that are unfullfilling but someone needs to do them, nurse, garage disposal etc.
But true Bullshit jobs tend to have no purpose and at best aren't adding anything positive to the world and at worst are making a negative contribution.
I think the problem is with the expectation that most/all jobs are bullshit jobs. "Use this meh job to gain some skills and experience /just to pay the bills while you look for a mopmore meaningful career" is a good message. "Mentally check out of this job and do the bare minimum while you pour all your mental energy into getting out and moving towards a more reasonable career" - potentially can make sense. "Mentally check out of this job and do the bare minimum because the thing you really care about - like raising a family, being there for your friends, having creative hobbies - cannot be turned into a career" is also realistic and sensible for a lot of people. The problem is when it becomes "Mentally check out of this job and do the bare minimum - and that's it. Don't expect to either change it or get your life's meaning from elsewhere".
While I’m not sure I love mentally checking out at anything, except maybe the dentist, I completely agree that what one does to earn money doesn’t have to be the sole focus, or even a major priority in life. You can certainly have a job with no real ambitions to move forward, if you’re using it as a way to earn money to travel or buy paint or feed your family or whatever. For me, the turn off is the active promotion and celebration of doing absolutely nothing of worth.
It's OK to be entirely dedicated to your career as a vocation.
It's OK to be a jobless housewife raising a family, or to have a job that pays the bills and that you leave at 5 on the dot to be fully present for your children.
It's OK to be childless by choice and also with a 9 to 5 job rather than a career, and enjoy the freedom to create art, travel the world and have spontaneous adventures.
It's also OK to do all of these if you can swing it, and be imperfect at it all, or to prioritise different things at different stages in your life.
But if you are doing neither this, nor that, nor that, nor that - at one point you have to ask yiurself: OK, but what is your legacy?
These comments are so interesting because it's so clear how much perceptions of reality are based on one's feed. "No one can afford to go out" and "we're all depressed because the world is burning" who are these people? 10 people on your feed making declarative statements?
The Media talks all the time about boomers who are radicalized to believe that cities are dangerous and scary because of Facebook, but maybe we should spend more time asking how young people are "radicalized" into thinking the whole world is dangerous and scary. In both cases, the facts don't back up the feelings.
While exasperated online, I do think this is a symptom of modern Western culture as a whole - Coming from someone relatively offline (apart from Reddit and Substack, and local community boards). I haven't seen these TikToks, but I do see a 180 from my generation (Z) from my parents in terms of going out.
We're in a self help era, which in part means that "partying" is simultaneous with drinking (and all the other stuff) and we liked to think we've out-grown the lifestyle that modern day science tells us is bad for us. We've optimized every other aspect of our lives, why not this?
you’re so absolutely right! this has been grating on my nerve all year. as someone not from america, whose social life has been stunted due to actual poverty i genuinely do find it so pathetic. to have so much world and life at your fingertip and be so unwilling to engage with it is supremely sad and loserish, for sure.
When I was in college, you could go to happy hours with well drinks for a dollar. Around here (Eastern PA college town), cocktails run $12 to $15. I just don’t think the average young person today can afford to party, at least not at a club.
this is so true, a lot of places/apps online have become this weird vacuum where ppl go to congregate and feel as though they’re part of a community but won’t do it in real life. real life community matters a lot more (in my opinion) than a community online does.
This is interesting! Especially as someone who spends A LOT of time in her bed since working from home four days a week (and genuinely loves being in bed for long periods of time!!! it’s where I work, write, eat, I kid you not sometimes I even do yoga in bed lolll it’s a bit insane but I’ve always been like this). I do wonder though how much of the trend you’re talking about has to do with the pandemic. If we’re talking about people in their mid-20s NOW, they entered adulthood while clubs were shutting down, they were forced from their college campuses back home for remote learning. I partied every weekend in college, and that was a pace I could manage!! But post-pandemic, I really have an entirely different relationship to clubs. Idk, I also don’t believe that these ppl are doing nothing lolll I think like all social media commiserating, it channels the extreme version of the idea. It seems like we can’t talk about Gen-Z’s relationship to the outside world without talking about the fact that they lost access to it at a significant age in their development. I will say when I did grad school a few years ago, the Gen-Z 20-somethings on campus were SO stylish and alive with their friends and flirting on the lawn--so I think, at least partly, the internet is just internet-ting again
I completely agree with your point about social media commiserating being the extreme version of the idea. I think a lot of these posts are heightened, for relatability or comedic purposes, in pursuit of traction. Current version of self deprecating ‘I’m so awkward’ posts of the 2010s
I do think you are right that the pandemic plays a role in gen z losing momentum for socializing outside the home. I still have questions about why bed rotting or dissociation is glorified. But, I think part of it is that Gen Z was handed a lot of hard stuff in the development years, such as economic uncertainty, worsening climate change, algorithmic technology at an early age. And of course the pandemic and lockdowns.
(Also I want to gently note your use of "post-pandemic". The Covid-19 pandemic is still happening and evolving. If you are talking about *lockdown*, please make sure your language is clear and makes distinctions between this and the virus. The pandemic, Covid-19, is not the same as lockdown, and we're currently in a large surge. Lockdown ended, Covid did not. Thanks!)
My dude the idea that your generation has more ACTUAL stress because of ACTUAL world events that are fundamentally beyond your perception is nonsense. My father grew up in a literal war zone and loved partying. People grew up during the Cuban missile crisis. It’s the phones. Hell, even your perception of these stressors is driven by your 24/7 connection to the news. You would not be worrying about the climate so much if you were just outside going about your business in it.
your comment lacks empathy and dismisses the challenges Gen Z faces. their stressors are different than yours, but that gives you no right to suggest that those stressors are not real stressors, and that your generation and other generations have "actual" stressors compared to theirs. Stressors are stressors.
You also falsely assumed I'm Gen Z. Gen Z is not my generation, but I am still making an effort to try to understand the challenges they are dealing with. Because, you know, empathy.
You’ve had too much empathy and it has done you no good whatsoever.
This is why none of want to be around people! “You’ve had too much empathy”. Are you for real? Your commenting on an article for what looks like just another opportunity to i individualize yourself with distinction. You’ve made society inhospitable and we don’t want to be around your judgement and lack of basic human decency. Also, learn about neurodivergent people. You don’t get to decide other people’s experiences.
You would be able to handle it if you hadn’t been so toxically molly coddled. The people who taught you these ideas have wronged and seriously harmed you
Well, there is a thing as "too much empathy".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOyaxuTEVMo
sweetie baby I am empathetic AF and its why I cut someone with a razor when I was 12. he older teen who was hitting on my sister who was 15 and she was scared. Do you want to step off now? Sorrel,. hiya! So tell the class every single good thing empathy has done for you. you got like a few right?
Pffft. It's the phones, put them down.
"your comment lacks empathy" that's just because the comment they respond to doesn't deserve much.
> "You also falsely assumed I'm Gen Z. Gen Z is not my generation, but I am still making an effort to try to understand the challenges they are dealing with.
Understanding the challenges doesn't involve validating non-challenges.
Nope sorry I’m Gen Z and Echo Tracer nailed it here!
I have to say I agree. My grandmother was raised during WWII - spent nights in air raid shelters, went to school with a box with a gas mask. She loved going out jiving. What she didn’t have was a constant connection to media, family and friends and non tangible problems. She had real problems anti deal with, she understood violence was violence and words were words. And she certainly didn’t worry about “empathy” 😂 what a first world problem to have.
Or being outside will remind you why the environment is so wonderful and needs protecting …
"It's the phones." Nailed it. I'd say it's a lack of self control. The fact that some people, in this miserable world, are actually worrying about the climate on a daily or weekly basis, baffles me beyond greater mysteries.
This; house prices are high, but almost literally everything else is better and safer than it used to be, and I'm gonna go ahead and say these people complaining aren't in Sudan, Gaza, or Ukraine.
Great points! I’m so used to referring to lockdown as the pandemic in speech, but thank you for the correction!
You're probably right, Sorrel!
this!! it’s so important to remember we all lived thru a traumatic event together (and still are!) and like most era defining events it changed things!!! + the quirky introvert model has, to some degree, always been a condescending voice of superiority in online spaces. since the dawn of streaming, girlies were out there bragging ab endlessly consume content indoors while melting into their couch.
loved how you phrased those last two excellent points!!
Interesting point! I also think the pandemic messed things up socially and we’re only just getting back into the swing of things so to speak. Having everything shut down during your formative years is a lot to take. We will bounce back and I also think your point about things online being extreme is entirely true. Online is an imaginary world. The sooner we all realize that the better.
I have similar thoughts to you. I did some post-turning-18 clubbing prior to the pandemic which were… interesting, honestly not that fun times, potentially because of WHERE I was clubbing. When the pandemic hit I had my own personal things happening and was kind of glad for a good reason to stay at home and try to work on projects. I haven’t clubbed since, nor even been to a house party, mostly because where I live all the “good clubs” people are nostalgic for shut down! The nightlife environment itself changed and now, from my perspective, young people seem to gravitate more to dinners/drinks at pubs or local bands at dingy venues. I am also socially awkward in real life and need to be in the right mood to go out and not feel like a weirdo, regardless of the apparent shtick of introversion in Gen Zers. I definitely agree that perhaps more of us are being open online about our lifestyle habits and that likely reflects a few socioeconomic changes, but also agree that it’s the Internet internetting!
Maybe people are afraid to commit themselves to an activity that can be taken away so easily without warning, and replaced with intense fearmongering and shaming language. The trauma has poisoned such activities for them, so they retreat to what cannot be torn from their grasp. If a small kid had a favorite toy, but one day, an adult ripped it from their hands and shouted at them for no reason, then the kid would avoid that toy in future, to the point of ignoring its very existence.
let us also not forget Gen Z grew up with gun violence in a way that profoundly shaped their notions of safety and being in public.
Ehh, I mean, did Gen Z see more gun violence than people in the gangster epoch? I don't think those people were afraid of going public, even if there was a possibility of being hit by a drive-by unrelated to you.
I would tag it as “all sorts of violence” to that. Several stories of grandfathers and great grandfathers, where they would casually hint at home entrances, windows and car doors being completely unlocked like nothing.
Today modern cars will lock themselves down the moment you walk away, start rolling proximity cameras (higher end ones) and be tracked by satellite.
Today some cities you get out home avoiding stepping on others’ poops and worried if there’s some crazy person pushing people to the subway tracks to their demise.
cannot express how perfectly this captured my feelings about the concept of bedrotting as a legitimate mode of life and not like…a sign of depression??? it genuinely depresses me how simply scrolling on one’s phone (as opposed to texting friends to make plans, engaging with some niche specific community like the fanfiction people are doing, developing obscure specialist knowledge about highly specific topics) is seen as a hobby
there are so many jokes-that-aren’t jokes about having no hobbies and enjoying the stagnancy and comfort of staying in versus having some encounters with the REAL WORLD…and like, that isn’t self-care babe, that’s self-harm…
right!!!!!! staying in your comfort zone 24/7 is not healthy and yeah maybe it feels good (not even good, just not scary/bad as opposed to going outside and doing stuff) but it really is not good for you . people don't even want to experience life anymore, they'd rather watch a distorted version of it on their screens
“Name three hobbies you have outside of media consumption” literally changed my life. I think about it at least once a week and feel much less online because of it
Can you explain this to me, an ancient 38 year old? Is that question difficult to answer for young people? Why? I can answer that question easily (weightlifting, community band, puzzling, books, cooking, going to art museums)
The people this article is about will just go home and watch Netflix and Instagramm. There is a non-zero group of people with no hobbies outside of media consumption.
Books are media
Books are media... in the quietest, non-invasive way (sensually).
Books are media
I think it's more about the passive idea of consumption rather than it being media in general. Books and art museums require more than just sitting around (technically). If you're reading a book you're not just a receptacle for the information the same way you are watching a YouTube video or TikTok. You, if alone, engage with the text actively. It sparks thoughts and ideas and your brain follows them as part of the activity of reading.
I think with books that only applies if your reading books that challenge you in some way. Like I don’t think someone who only reads bottom of the barrel YA novels their whole life has any more of a rich life than someone who only watches sitcoms
I mean, sure. That being said, sitcoms can say things and be intellectually engaging media, as well. Like, the Good Place is a great example of a show that engages watchers while the show is going on while also imploring outside exploration into philosophical concepts. So to act as if all media is mindless, even sitcoms, even certain YA, is narrow minded. People should engage with challenging media but having broadly defined media that "isn't challenging" prevents people from seeing what can be intellectually engaging.
So are art museums, actually
Exactly my thoughts
Also I think it's telling that you seem to have not noticed that three of your "hobbies" are media consumption (puzzling, books, art museums). That still leaves the other three, so you are in the top 1% there.
Because most people (of any age) don't do those things. I'm 40 and I couldn't answer it
IKR. Music. Reading. Swimming. Taking walks (is that a hobby?). Making videos. C'mon... everybody has hobbies. Honestly... they have hobbies too. I can't imagine but a VERY small, undisciplined minority of people, actually lack hobbies because of their social media usage. God the online world is such a ridiculous mockery of the real thang.
Music is also media consumption
Nope, other way around. A very small minority DO have hobbies.
Also reading is media consumption!
It's in a way even a lower bar than it sounds like, it's 'consumption' not creation. As the author states, the people churning out creative works aren't like this.
I do think that an element of this is just who is online. I have a friend circle of 10-20 women in their thirties and forties and we go out all the time. hiking, dancing, weekends away, we do potluck dinners and picnics, throw bbqs, swimming at the river, etc. and most of those women just aren't really online. I know we're not really the generation you're describing here, just musing about how many active people i know who don't have time for social media.
Wow this seems like a different world. I am a 20-something and would love to have a group of friends similar to yours.
So make it happen
I'd love to, but it's almost impossible.
Meetup.com is decent for this, if you're lucky.
I do admire the stamina, variety and enjoyment.
After the lockdown, I have realized that I got energies for only one activity a week at most and never on Sundays. Which is a bit strict for many. Recharging at home has become a higher priority.
After a day of intense work paired with the daily busy and noisy commute along with thousands others in crowded subways and buses: what I really crave is a lonely jog run with a podcast or music playing, far away from it all.
After doing a week of that, JUST READING the amounts of activities people enjoy and imagining the actual efforts behind it (it takes some willpower and preparation for it) gets me tired 😅
But this is something that has to be sustained, after skipping one too many events, people will understandably stop inviting.
You might be the exception but mostly it doesn't work like that.
I used to come home from work shattered and then drag myself out to play 2 hours badminton, an hour in the pub and then drag myself home near midnight with too much energy to go straight to bed. It seems counterintuitive but it's true - The more time you spend doing stuff you like with people you like, the more energy you have. Watching TV is draining
This is key: we aren't batteries, and energy and ability to go out is like a muscle. As you say, lying in bed doing nothing drains energy, and no, this isn't an introvert/extrovert thing: I'm pretty introverted, but going out for a walk in the park or woods is energising and staying in is draining.
It seems like there's a pretty intuitive explanation to me: During the formative period in many Gen Zer teens/twenties, say high school and college, the COVID-19 pandemic upended their lives*. Suddenly, schools were closed and everyone was bombarded with messages about how important it was to stay home and how dangerous/irresponsible it was to be out where you could catch a disease. It was easy to conflate social contact with danger. People YOLOing it out an Appleby's were called out in 2020-2021, and in some places, much later than that.
Everyone responded by spending way more time online than they already did, many finding weird rabbit holes to go down. TikTok boomed during this time. Our brains were stuffed with constant reels arguing about masking and vaccines and transmission of illnesses. After covid stole the show there was the boomlet of panic about Mpox, which was entangled with sexual behavior. Don't get me started on the political and social strife during the last 4 years (we had an insurrection! half the country thinks the last election was stolen!!)
Should we be surprised that many of the younger generation adapted and either grew to like their hyper-introvert reality (or at least told themselves they did)? We essentially lived through a global mass trauma, and I think a lot of people have PTSD and anxiety disorders as a result. It won't get fixed overnight. I'm a married elder millennial turning 39 this week and covid impacted me a lot; I can't imagine what it was like for a 20 year old with a still developing brain, sense of self, and life plan.
*Please note that I am not a crazy anti-vaxxer or person who rants about the evils of covid social distancing measures. It was a serious disease, lots of people died. Some have continued to have long term disability. We were working with limited information, the fog of war of a pandemic means we're going to get some decisions wrong, by degree or by kind. That doesn't mean we have to ignore the lingering aftershocks.
You make some really excellent points! I didn’t think about the formation of the self during really pivotal years, and COVID really probably explains the spiking anxiety disorders among very young people.
So the question is, what do those who came of age during these years do about it? I see communities forming in baby steps, and people coming out of their comfort zones here and there, but nothing substantial yet and especially not in rural/suburban areas. I think people want to break out of this but genuinely do not know how or have the tools to do so. They need to be brought into community, but how, and where...? So much of social life for ALL ages has taken a hit.
I enjoyed the post but I’m not sure why so many people are convinced that it’s more moral to go out and interact with friends you might not really like than stay home and be happy. The videos I see show lovely cozy homes that clearly took effort to build… this isn’t a person who never does anything. I genuinely love time by myself and I suppose I’m a little proud of that because it seems so many people don’t. But none of these people are trying to prevent other people from going out! And frankly when those memes are most appealing are when… someone needs a vacation or a rest. After decades of productivity and hustle culture, the message that you’re supposed to be optimizing every breath you take, I think it’s a nice change. I really am an introvert. And of course I still need and want human connection and interaction. But between work and family getting some time to rest and enjoy myself alone with no guilt is very appealing.
I assume that this post isn't directed on introverts who do something good while staying home. It's directed on people who just scroll social media 24/7 - claiming they're resting, but, in fact, the activity itself is exhausting and requires more rest. A doomed cycle.
I feel like the person writing this essay was trying to point to a large societal shift reflected in internet culture rather than blame random people about wanting to stay home. Obviously everybody can decide what they want to do with their lifes but it says something about our society that so many people choose to stay home rather than meet friends.
I’m not sure it does. Most often this is not different people but different days or weeks - normal people both stay home sometimes and go out to meet friends sometimes. But it used to be that staying home was made fun of and associated with being a looser and I think cute little videos of someone showing their cute little home and how nice snuggling under you fav blanket with your fav snacks watching tv and being on your phone (probably texting with friends or family) is a positive shift in culture not a negative one.
I disagree. If i am home an want to relax i would much rather draw something, or read a book or listen to a podcast. My life feels more rich even when i am alone at home. I feel relaxed. I sleep better. I am not scared of being alone. Social media makes you feel as though you have to be connected 24/7 even if don't feel like it and for me personally that has led to a lot of anxiety and stress and general discomfort with my own life. But thats obviously been just my personal expirence and it might be diffrent for you
Extroverts will do literally *anything* except believe what introverts tell them about introverts.
Grouping people into extrovert v introvert is inaccurate and unhelpful imo
Thks
You've identified something very real here, internet culture is inherently apathetic and filled with a strong crab-in-the bucket mentality where attempting to achieve anything or move beyond it is interepreted as a hostile move, and seeing oneself as better than it. On the other hand there's the curse of generation discourse and it's twin generational insecurity that I feel you're falling prey too, it's true Gen Z is partying, taking less drugs( though those who do take drugs are far more likely to die), having fewer relationship and in general living in a more sober existence. There's nothing particularly wrong with that, and I don't think there's a need to act like there's a some sort of healthy norm for how widespread these things are. One of the glories of our era is that the internet has allowed widespread profilieration of subculture and communities to an anyone with a connection to it. The fact that other forms of entertainment have declined isn't unexpected.
My father works in preventing underage drinking. I’ve heard plenty of times from him about how great it is that young people are drinking less because of cultural norms. The problem is that if 20 year olds are partying less, so are 21 year olds.
The result of this cultural shift is that increasingly, people in my city simply don’t show up for concerts or to clubs. The local music scene is hanging on by a thread. I can count one hand the number of actual parties I’ve been to with more than one or two other couples/individuals hanging out. It makes earlier eras like the Happenings of the 60s and even the house parties of 2000s movies seem almost mythological. Unless you convince yourselves these things either never happened or were bad, actually, it’s hard not to feel resentful that this kind of thing is so hard to find now.
I think this is why many of us have receded into a nostalgic fantasy of earlier eras. I saw someone on Substack rolling their eyes at this today, but people are trying to emulate other times because it’s almost if we all pretend it’s the 70s/80s/90s then maybe we can return to what is perceived as a more authentic and less lonely time.
House parties WERE cool. I used to feel lame for gravitating to the kitchen but at least I was THERE.
The kitchen is the best place at a house party
Maybe I just wasn’t cool enough to be invited when I was that age.
I was a teenager in the 2000s and the house parties were the best! It was as fun as it looks. A house party with the right people was always better than the best of clubs 😁
Being a teenager with overbearing parents in the 2000s made going to them impossible even if I would have gotten invited, and then in college the only ones I got invited to were small and lame. I’m not bitter, lol.
I think you make a good point there George. I’m Gen X and one thing I’ve noticed with my friends who have kids is that they are more overbearing than our parents were. They over protect and smoother their kids and then complain that they aren’t independent - but god forbid you point out to them that it could be the result of not allowing them to fail and learn from their mistakes in the way that we were allowed to. Most of my friends would have hated to have themselves as parents - but they genuinely believe they are cool and hip parents 😂
Education about codependence would be nice. Why doing things for others that they should be doing for themselves is bad. Obsession about others' outcomes is bad. They are human beings who should be given the dignity of choice. Only through consequences do we learn anything.
Should be mandatory, but we haven't gotten the memo yet. And as a result, i was helicoptering in for my kids and ex-wife until I finally found recovery from the illness a couple years ago. GenX also.
In the Sixties there were plenty of places to go if you didn't like bars. A more significant point is that concerts, etc. were much less expensive. I was in the service in Hawaii in the late Sixties in Hawaii, a very expensive place to live, but we could go to concerts and festivals and, to a lesser degree, "happenings" for next to nothing. Now it seems to require the cost of a new car to go to a concert.
This was so good. As an 'introvert' (classic millennial over claiming that term) I've had to do some WORK in the last four years to force myself back into the world in a meaningful way after things shifted to working from home in the pandemic. I'm still not back in the office full time, and sometimes I think the lack of momentum makes bed rotting more appealing. If I haven't had to get up and leave the house to get to work, then at 6pm after a day of stressing out at a screen, it's way harder to get ready and go out to do something else. The natural connections just aren't there either - grabbing coffee with a co-worker, going for a drink after work. My social skills did decline over that period. So I wonder if there's a bit of that in the mix too? That we haven't quite recovered from the impact of the pandemic and those who are inclined to introversion have found it more difficult to get back to the usual levels of socialising because of that lack of social momentum now. I'm sure that's even more so the case for people who were 'coming of age' at that time - those who would have been moving into the natural age where you start partying and clubbing, but instead that was curtailed.
Enjoyed your thoughts on it! Lots to think about :)
Goddamn I loved this.
I just moved to LA and got on Bumble BFF to meet new folks and have seen so many people who proclaim they’re in need of friends, but can’t be bothered to make plans that require leaving their home or even respond to texts despite being on their phone constantly…and we wonder why we’re in the loneliness epidemic we’ve found ourselves in???
Yes, conversations require effort! Friendship requires time and energy! Community requires involvement and connection! No, that’s not as ~easy~ as bedrotting! But does that make it any less necessary for a full, vibrant life? Humans *need* community. We *need* eachother. But we have to get tf out of bed, put on some goddamn pants and text our homies back!!!!!
Maybe they're just not into you
come to think of it, that's probably the entire root of the loneliness epidemic! you're a genius
I'm in LA and need friends. Want to grab coffee?
I can’t like this enough! Brilliantly done!
To take it one step further, I also wonder about the glorification of apathy. Today I saw an IG reel of a woman laying in her robe on a treadmill looking at her phone, eating chips and drinking wine. The caption read something like “so happy my doctor told me to take time for myself on a treadmill for 30 minutes every day. Best 30 minutes ever.” And of course, the rush to comment about competing laziness bubbled up like a geyser.
I wonder where the glorification of checking out and intentionally under performing became the cool thing to do.
This reminds me of conversations I've had with my friends about how cultural attitudes towards work have perhaps overcorrected into a different and yet still unfulfilling norm. Everywhere people are glorifying rest and villainizing productivity, and I think we forget humans *like* to do things, to create, to be in community, and to (frankly) work toward what they care about. It doesn't actually feel that good to not do things all the time. Obviously there is a balance there, but I don't think the solution to a culture that overworks us is to glorify an apathetic one like you described.
Maybe because the jobs we're supposed to be productive at are bullshit jobs so there's no sense of achievement to be had from doing them well?
Not everyone can cure cancer or paint masterpieces. There's something to be said for doing bullshit jobs with dignity and humility, in order to provide a needed service or make someone else's life better. How long can we continue as a civilized society if people just quiet-quit their boring or unfulfilling work? How do the non-gifted feel about themselves if they justify not working hard at anything because they can't or won't do non-bullshit jobs -- are their lives better? Should they maybe consider the maturity inherent in "I did my best at something that wasn't my favorite" as opposed to "I am justified in rotting out because I can't spend my days doing what I consider fulfilling?"
I agree there are jobs that are unfullfilling but someone needs to do them, nurse, garage disposal etc.
But true Bullshit jobs tend to have no purpose and at best aren't adding anything positive to the world and at worst are making a negative contribution.
Ah… if I only I could have phrased that as succinctly as you, Celisia! 🥂
I think the problem is with the expectation that most/all jobs are bullshit jobs. "Use this meh job to gain some skills and experience /just to pay the bills while you look for a mopmore meaningful career" is a good message. "Mentally check out of this job and do the bare minimum while you pour all your mental energy into getting out and moving towards a more reasonable career" - potentially can make sense. "Mentally check out of this job and do the bare minimum because the thing you really care about - like raising a family, being there for your friends, having creative hobbies - cannot be turned into a career" is also realistic and sensible for a lot of people. The problem is when it becomes "Mentally check out of this job and do the bare minimum - and that's it. Don't expect to either change it or get your life's meaning from elsewhere".
Agreed.
While I’m not sure I love mentally checking out at anything, except maybe the dentist, I completely agree that what one does to earn money doesn’t have to be the sole focus, or even a major priority in life. You can certainly have a job with no real ambitions to move forward, if you’re using it as a way to earn money to travel or buy paint or feed your family or whatever. For me, the turn off is the active promotion and celebration of doing absolutely nothing of worth.
Exactly my point.
It's OK to be entirely dedicated to your career as a vocation.
It's OK to be a jobless housewife raising a family, or to have a job that pays the bills and that you leave at 5 on the dot to be fully present for your children.
It's OK to be childless by choice and also with a 9 to 5 job rather than a career, and enjoy the freedom to create art, travel the world and have spontaneous adventures.
It's also OK to do all of these if you can swing it, and be imperfect at it all, or to prioritise different things at different stages in your life.
But if you are doing neither this, nor that, nor that, nor that - at one point you have to ask yiurself: OK, but what is your legacy?
🙏🙏🙏
These comments are so interesting because it's so clear how much perceptions of reality are based on one's feed. "No one can afford to go out" and "we're all depressed because the world is burning" who are these people? 10 people on your feed making declarative statements?
The Media talks all the time about boomers who are radicalized to believe that cities are dangerous and scary because of Facebook, but maybe we should spend more time asking how young people are "radicalized" into thinking the whole world is dangerous and scary. In both cases, the facts don't back up the feelings.
There's a large psycho-social overlap between the TikTok Girl and the Talk Radio Boomer. They are essentially the same archetype.
Believe whatever the little electronic square tells you, is the common thread
While exasperated online, I do think this is a symptom of modern Western culture as a whole - Coming from someone relatively offline (apart from Reddit and Substack, and local community boards). I haven't seen these TikToks, but I do see a 180 from my generation (Z) from my parents in terms of going out.
We're in a self help era, which in part means that "partying" is simultaneous with drinking (and all the other stuff) and we liked to think we've out-grown the lifestyle that modern day science tells us is bad for us. We've optimized every other aspect of our lives, why not this?
Excellent point!
you’re so absolutely right! this has been grating on my nerve all year. as someone not from america, whose social life has been stunted due to actual poverty i genuinely do find it so pathetic. to have so much world and life at your fingertip and be so unwilling to engage with it is supremely sad and loserish, for sure.
When I was in college, you could go to happy hours with well drinks for a dollar. Around here (Eastern PA college town), cocktails run $12 to $15. I just don’t think the average young person today can afford to party, at least not at a club.
PA has some odd alcohol laws.
this is so true, a lot of places/apps online have become this weird vacuum where ppl go to congregate and feel as though they’re part of a community but won’t do it in real life. real life community matters a lot more (in my opinion) than a community online does.