I feel sad for people whose spouse/partner isn’t *one of* their best friends, but I also feel sad for people whose spouse/partner is *their only* best friend. It’s unhealthy at best and rife for (or caused by) predation at worst
Pardon how pedantic I’m about to get, but I think the obsession with getting married young that gen z is currently experiencing is a direct result of macro-level liminality. Much like the 1950s was a societal liminal space that was influenced heavily by rapid and intense change (WWII and all the Everything associated with it), I think the 2020s are a societal liminal space. And in the 1950s, we clung to a nonexistent suburban ideal as a source of stability amid a terrifyingly uncertain landscape. It makes sense that young 20-somethings are jumping the gun on marriage right now – it feels like control and accomplishment and Doing Life Correctly.
I really liked this. Clear, eye-opening. I see a lot of the sunk cost fallacy in social circles… and the desire to feel celebrated that the wedding industrial complex allows a woman to demand to be celebrated (in contrast, perhaps for some of these posters, to how they’re normally taken for granted.)
Oh man. You might recall that I'm an old school wedding blogger, and back in the late 00s, I was shocked when I ran a reader survey and realized that fully a third of my site's readers were not engaged, not working in the wedding industry, but just wanting to get engaged. They called themselves "ladies in waiting" (🤢) and saw reading a wedding blog as a way to day dream about what could be someday....
Now, sometimes that was sweet! For example, young queer folks living in conservative areas, dreaming of moving to the big city and being able to have the gay wedding of their dreams!
But sometimes it was just heartbreaking. I felt extra weird about it when folks would send in their wedding stories to be considered for publication, and they would say things like "I've been reading your site for years, way before I met my husband even, and I'm so excited to finally be featured!!"
I was always like oh wow did you rope this man into a relationship just so the quirky Wes Anderson theme wedding you've been planning since 2008 could maybe be featured on an alt-wedding blog?? It made me feel really gross and sad for these folks. (Many of whom, yes, would go on to get divorced. I know because they would write me years later asking me to delete their weddings from the site.)
I think what I learned is that our cultural fantasies about marriage aren't limited just to mainstream cis-het folks. Queers, neurospicies, pan-poly folks, freaks, geeks, and more: a LOT of us think marriage will save us.
I couldn't agree more. It's been a while since I came across an article that enhanced my critical thinking and opened my eyes. I couldn't thank the author enough for putting all the knowledge, references, and harsh truth into this beautiful piece. You have saved many lives.
I wish relationship types weren't so tied to hierarchy with marriage and partnership as the "most important" of them all. This ideology is a disservice to women because I feel we wait until we have partners to dare to claim our wholeness, instead of grabbing onto what is our birthright. A partner will never make you feel whole. at least in my opinion
oh the end note about all the comments from women claiming to have egalitarian relationships ...! I have a friend who will straight up explain how she does all the cleaning and most of the cooking (checks out with what I've observed as a house guest!) but then when I casually bring up this research she's like "I'm so glad *I* don't have one of those unequal relationships!" like the math doesn't add up....
Thanks for this breakdown, it's great! It really helps to understand this phenomenon through the lens of "if he won't respect me, the least he can do is legitimize me so that others will." I've been perplexed by women's seemingly widespread pursuit of "shut up rings" ever since romance reality shows switched from VH1 dating competitions to being highly polished and laser-focused on marriage (Love is Blind, Married at First Sight, The Ultimatum, etc).
I'm also fascinated by how popular these new shows are among left-leaning and secular women, given the aggressive conservatism of selling marriage to men as the key to a happy life. Please note I'm including myself here, as I too am fascinated by human behavior and relationships! Makes me wonder if that inclination is quietly driving the trend
A lovely read as someone who doesn't want to get married - I screech to a halt inside when I see people wear down their partners that eventually, usually apathetically so end up marrying them just so they have to stop hearing about it. I wish generally people had enough self esteem to know what lines to draw, when they're crossed, and when they're trying to drag someone across it with them. I know there's still a lot of ambiguity across cultures of how much work you should really be putting into a relationship/marriage, but I've never seen it exist where you have to flay yourself alive just to get mr. big to marry you.
It feels like anymore people truly believe you're about to hit retirement age at 25 and if you haven't married/kids/FIRE before thirty then you're already a foot in the grave of your social life. I wish people would take that energy elsewhere to friendships (not sure why people have the idea you can't be single in a friend group of married people?) and nurture those instead of fighting for someone with glaring incompatibilities.
I feel like there's a growing percentage that adds a third option to 'marry or split', and that's just 'live'. weddings are expensive and if you live together rand share a family, then a marriage is just a glorified piece of paper. maybe there IS a third option. and maybe it's about time women propose too? I'm all for equality here.
Usually, the women in these situations have asked their boyfriend to marry them (although in a more casual manner rather than a grand romantic gesture) and the boyfriend has said "Yes, but not right now." Also, they usually want their boyfriend to get down on one knee and give them a ring. It's not just about getting married - it's about their life going a specific way that they have expected and valued since childhood. (I am all for women proposing to their boyfriends btw! I'm just a woman who grew up in a conservative Christian environment and this is my understanding of why they don't do it.)
Because the conventional wisdom is that if the guy doesn’t propose then it doesn’t count. He won’t value the marriage or the commitment because it was “forced” on him by his wife.
Because it wasn’t “his choice” he can feel free to not try that hard to make things work, and if the woman ever pushes too hard for an explanation about why he doesn’t care then he’ll throw it back in her face that he didn’t even want to get married in the first place. It was her idea.
Because men are entitled babies who will take a woman’s love, affection, and the stable home life that she provides, and turn their noses up that it’s all worthless because it didn’t happen on *his* timeline and when *he* wanted it.
You might be interested in a book called Wife, Inc.: the business of marriage in the 21st century by Suzanne Leonard from NYU Press. She goes into the “aspirant wife” portrayals in culture as well as deeper data
That Reddit fascinates me! And Ossiana also wrote about it this week. I had no idea we were all reading it.
The experiences of women in that group are completely alien to me. My husband and I both knew we wanted to get married. I cannot fathom staying in a relationship that’s otherwise (unless you are also a person uninterested in marriage).
The goal should not be marriage. The goal should be to find a person you’re compatible with.
Just leave the guy who isn’t looking for the same thing. Go find someone who is!
I feel sad for people whose spouse/partner isn’t *one of* their best friends, but I also feel sad for people whose spouse/partner is *their only* best friend. It’s unhealthy at best and rife for (or caused by) predation at worst
Pardon how pedantic I’m about to get, but I think the obsession with getting married young that gen z is currently experiencing is a direct result of macro-level liminality. Much like the 1950s was a societal liminal space that was influenced heavily by rapid and intense change (WWII and all the Everything associated with it), I think the 2020s are a societal liminal space. And in the 1950s, we clung to a nonexistent suburban ideal as a source of stability amid a terrifyingly uncertain landscape. It makes sense that young 20-somethings are jumping the gun on marriage right now – it feels like control and accomplishment and Doing Life Correctly.
I really liked this. Clear, eye-opening. I see a lot of the sunk cost fallacy in social circles… and the desire to feel celebrated that the wedding industrial complex allows a woman to demand to be celebrated (in contrast, perhaps for some of these posters, to how they’re normally taken for granted.)
Oh man. You might recall that I'm an old school wedding blogger, and back in the late 00s, I was shocked when I ran a reader survey and realized that fully a third of my site's readers were not engaged, not working in the wedding industry, but just wanting to get engaged. They called themselves "ladies in waiting" (🤢) and saw reading a wedding blog as a way to day dream about what could be someday....
Now, sometimes that was sweet! For example, young queer folks living in conservative areas, dreaming of moving to the big city and being able to have the gay wedding of their dreams!
But sometimes it was just heartbreaking. I felt extra weird about it when folks would send in their wedding stories to be considered for publication, and they would say things like "I've been reading your site for years, way before I met my husband even, and I'm so excited to finally be featured!!"
I was always like oh wow did you rope this man into a relationship just so the quirky Wes Anderson theme wedding you've been planning since 2008 could maybe be featured on an alt-wedding blog?? It made me feel really gross and sad for these folks. (Many of whom, yes, would go on to get divorced. I know because they would write me years later asking me to delete their weddings from the site.)
I think what I learned is that our cultural fantasies about marriage aren't limited just to mainstream cis-het folks. Queers, neurospicies, pan-poly folks, freaks, geeks, and more: a LOT of us think marriage will save us.
Spoilers: sadly, it won't ❤️
This article is a great example of clear thinking and writing.
I couldn't agree more. It's been a while since I came across an article that enhanced my critical thinking and opened my eyes. I couldn't thank the author enough for putting all the knowledge, references, and harsh truth into this beautiful piece. You have saved many lives.
I wish relationship types weren't so tied to hierarchy with marriage and partnership as the "most important" of them all. This ideology is a disservice to women because I feel we wait until we have partners to dare to claim our wholeness, instead of grabbing onto what is our birthright. A partner will never make you feel whole. at least in my opinion
oh the end note about all the comments from women claiming to have egalitarian relationships ...! I have a friend who will straight up explain how she does all the cleaning and most of the cooking (checks out with what I've observed as a house guest!) but then when I casually bring up this research she's like "I'm so glad *I* don't have one of those unequal relationships!" like the math doesn't add up....
Thanks for this breakdown, it's great! It really helps to understand this phenomenon through the lens of "if he won't respect me, the least he can do is legitimize me so that others will." I've been perplexed by women's seemingly widespread pursuit of "shut up rings" ever since romance reality shows switched from VH1 dating competitions to being highly polished and laser-focused on marriage (Love is Blind, Married at First Sight, The Ultimatum, etc).
I'm also fascinated by how popular these new shows are among left-leaning and secular women, given the aggressive conservatism of selling marriage to men as the key to a happy life. Please note I'm including myself here, as I too am fascinated by human behavior and relationships! Makes me wonder if that inclination is quietly driving the trend
A lovely read as someone who doesn't want to get married - I screech to a halt inside when I see people wear down their partners that eventually, usually apathetically so end up marrying them just so they have to stop hearing about it. I wish generally people had enough self esteem to know what lines to draw, when they're crossed, and when they're trying to drag someone across it with them. I know there's still a lot of ambiguity across cultures of how much work you should really be putting into a relationship/marriage, but I've never seen it exist where you have to flay yourself alive just to get mr. big to marry you.
It feels like anymore people truly believe you're about to hit retirement age at 25 and if you haven't married/kids/FIRE before thirty then you're already a foot in the grave of your social life. I wish people would take that energy elsewhere to friendships (not sure why people have the idea you can't be single in a friend group of married people?) and nurture those instead of fighting for someone with glaring incompatibilities.
to add to your footnotes..isn't it also SUR Restaurant and Lounge? Like Sexy Unique Restaurant Restaurant? lmao insane
I feel like there's a growing percentage that adds a third option to 'marry or split', and that's just 'live'. weddings are expensive and if you live together rand share a family, then a marriage is just a glorified piece of paper. maybe there IS a third option. and maybe it's about time women propose too? I'm all for equality here.
I will never understand why people who want so badly to be married don't just propose!
Usually, the women in these situations have asked their boyfriend to marry them (although in a more casual manner rather than a grand romantic gesture) and the boyfriend has said "Yes, but not right now." Also, they usually want their boyfriend to get down on one knee and give them a ring. It's not just about getting married - it's about their life going a specific way that they have expected and valued since childhood. (I am all for women proposing to their boyfriends btw! I'm just a woman who grew up in a conservative Christian environment and this is my understanding of why they don't do it.)
Because the conventional wisdom is that if the guy doesn’t propose then it doesn’t count. He won’t value the marriage or the commitment because it was “forced” on him by his wife.
Because it wasn’t “his choice” he can feel free to not try that hard to make things work, and if the woman ever pushes too hard for an explanation about why he doesn’t care then he’ll throw it back in her face that he didn’t even want to get married in the first place. It was her idea.
Because men are entitled babies who will take a woman’s love, affection, and the stable home life that she provides, and turn their noses up that it’s all worthless because it didn’t happen on *his* timeline and when *he* wanted it.
You might be interested in a book called Wife, Inc.: the business of marriage in the 21st century by Suzanne Leonard from NYU Press. She goes into the “aspirant wife” portrayals in culture as well as deeper data
Liminality is uncomfortable!
love this!
That Reddit fascinates me! And Ossiana also wrote about it this week. I had no idea we were all reading it.
The experiences of women in that group are completely alien to me. My husband and I both knew we wanted to get married. I cannot fathom staying in a relationship that’s otherwise (unless you are also a person uninterested in marriage).
The goal should not be marriage. The goal should be to find a person you’re compatible with.
Just leave the guy who isn’t looking for the same thing. Go find someone who is!